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Links mentioned in this podcast:
- Read the transcript of this episode here. (h/t Kecia Gilliam)
- Sources for controversial sermons: Journal of Discourses, vol.4, pp.49-51
- Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, 1856, pp. 55-57
- Dialogue:A Journal of Mormon Thought, Vol.1, No.3, p.91-92
- Buy the reading guide here.
Buy the reading guide here.
Buy the reading guide here.
Buy the reading guide here.
Buy the reading guide here. - Polygamy and widows notes
Just what I needed. More reasons to dislike BY. 🙂
This episode blew my mind. I had no idea there was this kind of emotional abuse and manipulation. Pretty much everyone (LDS) knows of the Journal of Discourses, right? How come more members aren’t aware of the talks you read in this episode? I don’t understand how anyone’s testimony can remain after hearing or reading this. ???
There’s something I still don’t understand. When the wives starting having babies, or at least showing pregnancy, how were they explaining it to all the members who didn’t know about the polygamy?
My Goodness, I didn’t know these things. I wondered why you all disliked Brigham Young, but now I know !
Ha, and we are questioning ourselves why women don’t raise their voice with agitation for priesthood ? I suddenly see where this hard attitude from certain mormon men comes from and why it is for them to be allowed to show that attitude. Also I understand where these strange remarks come from, somehow women needed to be corrected and been blamed of something like we did no good from speeches from SLC leaders. It always made me feel depressed, while I had expected to be built up listening to General Conferences. This negative attitude toward women is penetrated in mormon culture !
What shows me clearly is that men, even these prophets, were not mental developped enough to exercise poligamy. As a mormon I tried to understand poligamy, but never noticed the right mental attitude among mormon men to be able to practise it, and there for agreed this heavenly state of living together was taken from the earth. Now somehow I thought that those practicing poligamy, being prophets and mormons of high standard, had these qualities. So, I had only wondered how I as a woman would do as a poligamist wife and had to conclude I am far too jealous to be able to be in such a situation. But for raising kids and doing so together with other women, I thought it could be a positive kind of living, because, if you organise it well, as a woman you can develop you talents and go out to work and earn money if you take care of the kids together. But here, men were ruling over women, women were not in charge of making own decisions and were held helpless and divided from each other, weakening their personal situation.
Instead of having heart and listening to the whining women, making responsible decisions to make changes to make things work for these women, they are threatened and forced in to a terrible way of living, used and abused and pushed aside when younger flesh came in.
These men had not the right mental attitude at all to be a servent in a poligamist marriage. Instead they centered themselves in the middle expecting the women to meekly adjust to everything they say and want. And they thought this would be so in heaven ? My gosh, what a hell !!!!!
Thank you for this podcast ! I finally understand where this harsh attitude from mormon men toward women comes from and also the meek attitude from mormon women to adjust to it and take it without questioning. I’m also talking about me here, and have had a hard time correcting it. Now I know where it comes from !
I wondered if there have been women whom left the plural marriage and if they went living together, built there own food and raised a community together that became successfull ? Is there any evidence of women having done so ? Probably not, or otherwise ignored, but what would it have been a great joy if grand groups of poligamist wifes left their husband and had done so ! And we would know of cities in Utah, with only women raising their kids, whom worked on the land and got enough to live from and sell and earn money from the rest. Isn’t there the slightest snipped of information somewhere in Utah in dusty old records ? I’d love to hear about it ! :o)
Thank you,
Peace,
Adrie de Jong
Just as an FYI to the site curator, this episode is listed incorrectly in the Quick List. Episode 37 Polygamy and Winter Quarters is listed twice, but the second link leads to this episode.
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Can anyone point me to a source for the mentioned stories from Quinn about finding bones in the desert of prostitutes and women and these kind of things about people that were found on these sacrificial hills?
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